Let's start with clearing up what is obviously a misconception on your part about macerators. Any macerator that's integral to a toilet has absolutely nothing to do with anything pertaining to marine sanitation laws. The only macerator at issue would be any separate macerator pump installed in a tank discharge line for the sole purpose of dumping the tank overboard. So if you have macerating electric toilets, you don't have to worry about them, no matter where the plumbing goes from the toilet.

A y-valve shouldn't constrict anything, any more than any other fitting would be a constriction. However, any y-valve in the head discharge line that allows waste to be diverted directly overboard from the toilet should come out because you can't legally divert waste directly overboard from the toilet in any waters within 3 miles of the whole US coastline (6-12 miles in parts of the Gulf off the west coast of FL.

Disconnecting all plumbing that goes directly overboard, closing the seacock and removing the handle, so that the toilet discharge ONLY goes to a tank or a CG Certified Type I or II MSD (treatment device), is all that's necesary to meet any legal requirement.

But that doesn't mean it's a good idea to just leave it at that--not for any legal requirement, but for the safety of you boat. I recommend that you connect a hose to the thru-hull that's long enough to be at least a foot above the waterline, secure it against the hull, and put a plug in it. If the seacock should leak, water will rise in the hose instead of your bilge.

But even that isn't enough to completely protect your boat...'cuz the bedding around thru-hulls degrades over time...so it will still be necessary to keep an eye on that thru-hull and rebed it when it starts to show signs that it needs it.

Or better yet, unless your boat is on a "no discharge" inland lake, make good use of the thru-hull by installing a treatment device, which is a MUCH more sound approach to onboard waste management--both practically AND ecologically--than holding tanks.

Peg -- Thankyou very much for your input. You have greatly reduced the "pucker factor" that this rookie has had to endure since purchasing this houseboat , which is a totally new experience and more complicated that the small cruiser we last had.
Another problem? I have had to pump out the holding tank almost every week since we bought the boat. Now, I know that the wife and I don't generate that much product (100Gal?) and even a 60 gallon tank would not fill this fast. While trying to fall asleep last night, I had a thoght, (hell of a thing to think about while trying to sleep). The supply sea cock for the foreward head has been left open at all times, even while cruising. Is this a mistake? Can raw water be injected into the waste systam by foreward motion of the boat, or is there a check valve mechanism involved here. Is the toilet ( PAR electric with macerator) itself the check valve?
Your last posting indicated that some sort of "treatment device" be used with the waste discharge sea cock which will otherwise be closed and locked. Can you elaborate?
Again, I would like to thank you for your patience and instructions. This forum, it's moderators and members has turned into a godsend for me. Thankyou

If the open head intake seacock while underway were the source of the water filling up your tank, it's likely that it would overflow the bowl first.

My guess is, your tank isn't as big as you think it is...or, you're using a lot more flush water than you think you are...or both.

First find out what size tank you really have. If the tank is rectangular, it's fairly easy to determine how much it really does hold: length x width x height in inches...divide by 231 (the number of cubic inches in a gallon). Since you're using outside dimensions, and because you can't fill a tank completely without overflowing it, not every cubic inch is useable capacity. So you need to back 5-10% out of your result and round off to get the useable capacity of your tank. Iow, a result like 53.678 means you have a 50 gallon tank.

Now for what it takes to fill up a tank. Most macerating electric toilets use at LEAST 1 gal flush water per flush...each human waste "deposit"--urine or solids--averages about a cupful (8 oz). The average adult uses the toilet 5x/day. That means that each of you is putting at LEAST gallons a day into the tank....both of you, at least 10 gals a day....more if you're keeping your finger on the flush button long enough to use more than a gallon of flush water. So you could easily fill up a 60 gallon tank in a week if you're continuously aboard.

However, cutting back on flush time is not the solution unless you're flushing much longer than it takes to move bowl contents to the tank...no matter how much flush water it takes, you have to flush at least that long or you'll leave waste standing the hose between the toilet and the tank to permeate it.

Re Treatment device: if your boat is shorter than 66', go to http://www.raritaneng.com then to waste treatment and read all about the Lectra/San (the PuraSan isn't certified for use with your toilet). If your boat is 66' or longer, go to http://www.houseboatoutlet.com and read all about "The MSD."

And at the risk of being perceived as trying to sell you something (however, it's my publisher who makes any money on it...I only get about $1 royalty), I also suggest you check out the _link_ in my signature.

Peg -- We have continued to pump out the waste holding tank once a week or whenever waste starts coming out the vent, which may be only five days after pumpout. I have determined that this is a 100 gallon holding tank which, due to the previous owners illness, has been used but not pumped out on a regular basis. I believe that solid matter has deminished the holding capacity of the tank and the more we use it and pump it out, the better off we will be. We have seen an increase in capacity on the tank monitor, which we were told did not work, and I believe that with a little care, we can bring it back to the original capacity.
Last weekend, I took the opportunity to remove the Y-valve from the foreward head waste system. Interesting job and I am now sorry that I have another one to do. Any volunteers? My wife came back from a shopping trip just a little to early and was able to appreciate the predicament I had gotten myself into. She graciously agreed to help out and things went a little better. She asked me why a houseboat, built in middle America, would come equipped with this sort of system. Even if it were allowable to vent waste outside the three mile limit, I see no reason that a houseboat suitable for rivers and lakes would be taken out on open water. Is this practice still allowed?
When do I get to have fun with our houseboat? I have gravitated from engine compartment to foreward head and next will be evaluating some very large batteries for the inverter system as well as the Y-valve for the aft head. Oh well, I guess thats boating.

There's an easier (ok, maybe not easier, but a lot quicker) way to flush out your tank: Pump out...put about 10 gallons of water into it through the deck pumpout fitting--because that sends water into the tank at the bottom to stir up the sludge--pump out...repeat...repeat...repeat...until what's being pumped out is only clean water. Unless the sludge has turned to concrete, you can flush it all out doing this. If it HAS turned to concrete, there's nothing that will dissolve it that won't also damage the tank.

As for why a boat built for use on inland waters would be equipped to dump the tank, it's more likely that a previous owner installed it than the builder or dealer did....'cuz people are gonna do whatever they can get away with doing, and if enforcement of marine sanitation laws is lax or non-existant, they're gonna flush overboard.

The reason your boat was plumbed that way was so you could put a type I or II device and not have to put in a thru hull. Here in Al there are not that many pumpouts and this is needed. Many states inspecting are certifying Crown heads. They are not Type I devices but I told the people let the inspectors do the inspecting.if they do not know what they are inspecting so be it. that is their problem. There are many people inspecting who do not know the toilet from the Type I, Mercerator with chemical they put on the sticker. There are no Coast Guard near to where I am, and no one in Law enforcement knows anything about it. Al will not have Porta potty Police in the near future as there are no pumpouts to speak of and there is no money to enforce anything. I would suspect after Tuesdays defeat of the tax measure that marine police will be reduced. From your posts, you seem to think no discharge means nothing except gray water, this is wrong if you are in a discharge zone, which you are, you can discharge if you have a MSD. Get a Purasan or similar unit and be done with all this. You will have to reinstall the Y valve so the treated sewage will go overboard. You will be much better off with the type I system in operation. You will also be covered for no discharge zones as you will have the typeIII. Peggie knows as much about this as anyone I know, but that is why your boat came like that. put in the type I

Pirate, you're mistaken about the Crown Head....but you're not alone..

The forerunners of Type I MSDs were simple macerators chlorinators...they didn't treat to anywhere near legal Type I standards, but because they did "puree" the discharge and mix it with a little chemical, it was better than nothing..and for a few years, the CG accepted 'em. At that time, the Crown Head was one of the few toilets that macerated, and the only one that was also equipped with a reservoir that shot a little bit of chemical into each flush. So it is true that in the late '70s and early '80s--the first few years in which there were any marine sanitation laws--the CG did grant a waiver that allowed Crown Heads using Raritan concentrate to be used in lieu of a holding tank or Type I, but that waiver was withdrawn nearly 20 years ago. There are no states that still "certify" a Crown Head or any other macerator/chlorinator device.

However, many older boat owners--especially houseboat owners--remember that waiver and continue to believe that they don't have to install a holding tank or CG certified Type I or II--that boats equipped with Crown Heads are "grandfathered"...but 't'ain't so. There are no longer any states--and haven't been for 20 years--in which anything but either a real CG certified Type I or II or holding tank is acceptable.

"From your posts, you seem to think no discharge means nothing except gray water, this is wrong..."

He's not wrong...That IS what "no discharge" means. However, not all inland waters are "no discharge"...all non-navigable inland lakes are...but the discharge of TREATED waste from a CG certified Type I or II MSD is allowed on most navigable waters (interstate waters capable of supporting vessel traffic).

That the discharge of treated waste may be legal does NOT mean that it's legal to dump a tank or flush any toilet directly overboard in any US waters...only that the owner has the choice of installing a tank that can be emptied only by pumpout or--depending on whether the vessel is longer or shorter than 66'--a CG certified Type I or II MSD.

Peggie, you misunderstood my posts, I said there are states issuing stickers for MSDs thinking a Crown head is one. In 1977 I had a meeting with the coast guard and the Corps of engineers at Anchor High marina in Hendersonville Tenn. about holding tanks. After much debate they agreed that the Crown head would be much better than the holding tank. I had told them that the holding tank would be dumped at midnight while underway and they would not catch them.
The discharge thing, he was wrong, in the area he is using his boat, that was the point I was trying to make. treated discharge is allowed on the Miss river.

The State doing this is Kentucky on Lake Cumberland. The Commodore of the Yacht Club called me and asked if the head was legal as some had been inspected, given stickers and told they were fine. He said they nearly had a fight about it. This was over a year ago, I told him they were not MSDs and to just let them keep approving them, they made the determination they were legal so be it. I for one am sick and tired of the regulations when we the boaters are not the problem. When they do not know what they are doing let them do it anyway. I know that Sailor 1 is on the Mississippi and he can put a type I on his boat for about $700 and be done with it. He is not going to the Lakes just downstream and you can discharge gray water and treated sewage all the way. Lake Cumberland is a landlocked lake and it is a discharge lake for treated sewage, that is where the flap is, when the general public hears no discharge they think it means that, even if it is on a Navigable waterway that is discharge. The No discharge of untreated sewage makes them think no discharge period. Kentucky Senate bill 315 is asking the EPA to make Lake Cumberland a no discharge except for gray water. Below is a copy of the bill. I know the rules and the regs very well or I would not be telling people about them. You said all inland lakes are no discharge, but Lake Cumberland is Discharge until changed. How many exceptions are there to this rule and where are they? I know of several States that still do not have a Sanitation law, some States exempt any Documented vessel from theirs, Kentucky is one. most States exempt Commercial vessels from the state law. I always Document mine as Commercial six pack vessels, I do not have to put up with all this mess. I would venture to say that 90% of all vessels in Tenn, Al, Miss, and La. do not comply with the State laws except for the fact they have a bucket on the deck. I for one am not as the TVA wanted me to do inspect boats at my marina for compliance. You cannot just board boats and demand to see things. Documented vessels if you get to the letter of the law can be held by Marine Police but not boarded without probable cause due to search and seizure laws. I told the old Governor here that a lot of boats would be registered elsewhere and that is what is happening. The new Governor was going to unsign the bill but as Peggie told me it was severable and it mirrored the Federal law. The Portapotti exclusion makes it totally unenforceable anyway. Peggie is the foremost authority on these things that I know but there is a lot goes on in some States that are not in the rules. There are no Pumpouts on a whole lot of the Tenn. River, warrior river, Cumberland River etc. I say let everyone have a MSD Type I or II and clean up the factories and city sewage plants and leave the compliant boaters alone. Most boaters are not going to dump raw sewage unless it is a have to situation. At Joe Wheeler State Park, the environmental wackos went down to the marina and said the boats were polluting the water. The boaters decided to do some snooping on their own and got pictures of raw sewage coming out of the City Sewers. The City environmental people dropped that like a hot potato. They never heard another word. The whole thing is getting ridiculous, cow dung goes in the river, how are you going to stop it? Anyway below is the Kentucky sanitation law. it says put a type I to prevent discharge along with II and III, as I said they do not know an MSD from a regular Commode. Sailor put a type I on your boat and be done with the headache. This sewage thing has really gotten people upset. Some here think they are required to have a holding typeIII, which you do not on these waters. They think that because of the wording no discharge, which means on these waters of untreated sewage. There was a Lawyer in Atlanta that won a case in Federal Court a few years ago saying if the boat did not come with it she did not have to put it on. That was at Lake Lanier, the Court agreed and I have heard nothing since. Peggie may be able to enlighten us on that.


It is against the law to discharge raw sewage from any boat. Boats equipped with marine sanitation devices must be equipped with a United States Coast Guard (USCG) approved Type I, II, or III MSD.

On most bodies of water in Kentucky, boats are prohibited from discharging any type of sewage and must be equipped with a holding tank (Type III MSD), or have a Type I or II MSD to prevent discharge.

Kentucky waters designated as discharge waters are Lake Barkley, Kentucky Lake, Lake Cumberland, Dale Hollow Lake, and navigable rivers. On these lakes and rivers:

-Boats up to 65 feet in length must be equipped with a Type I, II, or III MSD

-Boats over 65 feet in length must be equipped with ONLY a Type II or III MSD

-Only houseboats equipped with Type I or II MSDs may discharge treated effluent.

“We feel that we have given the boating public time to get into compliance with this law,” said Colonel David Casey, director of the KDFWR’s law enforcement division. “We have advised and educated boaters about this new law, and any boater not in compliance after more than two years is probably never going to be in compliance voluntarily.”

To better protect Kentucky’s aquatic resources and help maintain cleaner public waters, KDFWR law enforcement officers will be stepping up enforcement of illegal MSD use in all Kentucky waters this coming boating season.

For complete information about MSD requirements and other boating laws, pick up a copy of the 2003 Kentucky Sport Fishing and Boating Guide. It’s available from license vendors statewide, on the internet at fw.ky.gov, or by calling the KDFWR Information Center toll-free at 1-(800) 858-1549 weekdays, 8 a.m. to 4:30 p.m. Eastern.


A JOINT RESOLUTION directing the Natural Resources and Environmental Protection Cabinet to apply to the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) for the redesignation of Lake Cumberland as a No Discharge Area under the federal Clean Water Act, and declaring an emergency.
WHEREAS, Lake Cumberland is a popular recreational area with heavy usage by houseboats and other vessels; and
WHEREAS, federal law currently allows unlimited discharge of certified Marine Sanitation Devices (toilets) into Lake Cumberland; and
WHEREAS, many citizens who enjoy swimming, fishing, and boating on Lake Cumberland are concerned about the large amount of treated sewage being discharged into the lake; and
WHEREAS, the federal Clean Water Act allows states to apply to the EPA for redesignation of a water body as a No Discharge Area, if that water body requires greater environmental protection;
NOW, THEREFORE,
Be it resolved by the General Assembly of the Commonwealth of Kentucky:
Section 1. The Natural Resources and Environmental Protection Cabinet shall apply to the Environmental Protection Agency requesting the redesignation of Lake Cumberland as a No Discharge Area.
Section 2. Because the environmental protection of a popular recreational water body is at stake, an emergency is declared to exist, and this Resolution takes effect upon its passage and approval by the Governor or upon its otherwise becoming a law.
Section 3. A copy of this Resolution shall be sent to the Natural Resources and Environmental Protection Cabinet immediately upon its passage